Hugh Jengine
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Numb Nuts - racing in the rain / round by round qualliesRacing in all weather conditions:
To help make this Numb Nuts series a success, we should plan in advance for the winter weather.
As this is a winter series where rain can be expected & prepared for, are we going to run in all conditions? If yes, would a round-by-round qualifying system be put in place?
My thinking behind the above - people will be more inclined to turn up on a race day where bad weather is expected, if they know for sure that racing will be on, especially if there is travelling involved.
Round by round qualifying is the only fair format for changeable weather conditions - You score points for where you qualify in each round, where everyone has the same weather conditions to deal with (1point = 1st, 2 points = 2nd etc), points totalled up at the end of qualifying and the driver with the lowest points total qualifies on pole.
Example of ftq being used: Racer1 dominates qualifying all day in bad weather, track dries out for the last round and racer1 gets punted off the track 15 other racers go quicker and Racer1 ends up in the B final.
There are different ways to run round by round, does the CMCC computer system cater for this?
What do people think?
Ryk
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timbo
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Hi Ryk, yes our system does do round by round and i think that it would be a good idea also, as you say people who travel will get a race no matter what the weather.
Tim
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pjlague
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Hi All
Yes i agree with that,as you know we done the nationals this year,and you run whatever the weather,and i think thats how it should be,as people travel a long way to race,if people dont want to race in the wet thats up to them,and the qually,s,ect i think that a good thing aswell as Ryk stated,about the conditions.
Pete.
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brad
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Sounds good Ryk! Brings reliability into the equation aswell which will always make things interesting!
Fingers crossed, college will die down a bit & Ill be able to do all the nitro rounds, along with Dad and his NT1  !!!
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Mr.B
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Yes i think we'll adopt those rules for this year.I cant see anyone objecting.
So
Round by round if wet.
And race in any weather.
I'll post the ammendments on the other forums so that everyone is aware.
Paul.
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Craig.Woods
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Well.. just to confuse everyone i thought that the computer didnt do this.. but.. according to Tim.. it does...
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timbo
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As on RC Timings web site. Use any type of qualifying; FTQ, round-by-round or fastest lap, with stagger, grid or rolling starts.
Tim
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BigD
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race all weathers I LIKE THE RAIN 
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ast
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| BigD wrote: | | race all weathers I LIKE THE RAIN |
agreed , nothing worse than getting up early and going to a track only to have it canceled or closed just because a few dont want to get dirty cars
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spmcc
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R By R is great for the nitro guys because we can run in the wet without to many problems. BUT bear in mind the electric guys have a major problem with the wet. Didn't Paul B do at least 3 speedos at Ipswich last weekend.
From a personal point of view, my budget doesn't extent to replacing engines after every wet meeting because its ingested several gallons of water and replacing just about every bearing on the car. "Forcing" people to race to get points to qualify higher ain't no fun.
Why not run bump-up finals then if you don't want to go out in a qualifier and only make a lower final you still stand a chance of making the A.
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RedBull
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| Craig.Woods wrote: | | Well.. just to confuse everyone i thought that the computer didnt do this.. but.. according to Tim.. it does... |
It also makes sounds! 
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Hugh Jengine
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Bump up or round by round are both viable format options.
With a well prepared nitro car, I don't think running in the wet means having to replace a full set of bearings and an engine after each meeting. As long as racers realise that this is a winter series, where winter weather will be a factor for all to deal with, then it is up to them if they choose to run in the series or not.
I'm a bit out of touch with electric technology now, but realise that brushless systems are not too keen on rain, is there a decent way people have found of protecting them?
I'm sure both formats would work well and have no personal preference - maybe the round-by-round would benefit more consistent drivers and we'd see a few different faces at the top of the qualifying board?
Ryk
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spmcc
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| Hugh Jengine wrote: | Bump up or round by round are both viable format options.
With a well prepared nitro car, I don't think running in the wet means having to replace a full set of bearings and an engine after each meeting. As long as racers realise that this is a winter series, where winter weather will be a factor for all to deal with, then it is up to them if they choose to run in the series or not.
I'm a bit out of touch with electric technology now, but realise that brushless systems are not too keen on rain, is there a decent way people have found of protecting them?
I'm sure both formats would work well and have no personal preference - maybe the round-by-round would benefit more consistent drivers and we'd see a few different faces at the top of the qualifying board?
Ryk |
Ryk, I think I realise it's a winter series it was my idea in the first place. Yes we want a full turnout of drivers at each meeting. R by R doesn't necessarily benefit the more consistant driver, those who gain are those who are prepared to race whatever the track conditions. This is supposed to be a fun series, not a national, not he who wins is the one who's prepared to sacrifice their kit. Tris has raced in all conditions from searing heat to snow on the track and all conditions in between, and we have done more damage when racing in rain than anything else. If you guys want to race in the rain fine, it's your choice and no doubt we will join you but having to race all the qualifying rounds at a meeting so as to get enough points to qualify higher up the grid is a bit over the top.
There is never going to be an easy answer.
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Ashers
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Hi All. Way back in the dark ages when I used to race Electric {boring} cars we would water proof our cars by putting receivers in balloons and keeping water from speedos and motors by using a lexan undertray and boxes this did not always cure things but it certainly helped, trouble is I dont suppose you can still get undertrays these days. For nitros balloon receiver silicone around servos and leads use the right type of air filter [made from film cans] and oil on foam, spray engine internals with WD40 after racing much better than after run oil. I've not had a engine blow up through water.
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Hugh Jengine
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| Quote: | | Ryk, I think I realise it's a winter series it was my idea in the first place. |
Hello Jon, i think you may have misunderstood the direction of my comment:
| Quote: | | As long as racers realise that this is a winter series, where winter weather will be a factor for all to deal with, then it is up to them if they choose to run in the series or not. |
I am not refering to you or any other individual but to "racers" This is just an open discussion with suggested ideas that may help the series.
How about this: (This is just an idea and may not be possible with the computer systems)
1/ As the Numb Nuts is a winter event, mixed weather is expected - please prepare your car for all conditions.
2/ To minimise the effect of weather on qualifying, all events will be run to a round-by-round qualifying format* with bump up finals**
3/ It is our intension to run in most weather conditions, as long as it is deemed "safe" by the race director.
"safe" refers to health and safety.
4a/ If the weather is deemed unsafe by the race director at the allocated start time, a delay will be called (max 1 hour start time delay) As soon as it is considered safe by the race director, the meeting will start. If it is not considered safe after 1 hour, the race meeting will be postponed and rescheduled.
4b/ If the weather is deemed very poor by racers and the race director at the allocated start time, there will be a majority vote by racers in attendence on weather or not to delay the start. Max delay 1 hour.
*4 rounds of qualifying, 3 rounds to count. Top 7 qualify directly to the A final, next 7 qualify in the B etc
**Top 7 qualifiers go straight into the A final. Top 3 finishers from the C final bump to the B final, top 3 from the B final bump to the A final.
Please reply with any ideas, opinions, comments or problems that you can see about the above format & rule posibilities.
One thing that may be a problem is with the batteries and over-heating of motors/speedos for electric bump-ups? As i said before, i am out of date with modern electrics, so i'm not sure? Marshals - Would 7 marshals work ok? - to give the top 3 finishers a chance to get their cars ready for the next final?
| Quote: | | This is supposed to be a fun series, not a national, not he who wins is the one who's prepared to sacrifice their kit. |
I found the nitro rubber nationals were a fun series to be part of and most of the time the guys who beat me drove better and didn't sacrifice their engines by bad tuning.
Ashers - thanks for sharing your good advice.
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Mr.B
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We 'will' run a meeting if it's wet.
Because people travelling for up to an hour only to be told 'No racing' is not fair.So its up to them once they arrive.
We all know the risks.
If its dry then its FTQ.
If its wet then the option of round by round will be given to the drivers present on the day.A simple show of hands.
If we have more than 20 in a class then we can consider 'bump-up' finals.
But in reality 20 in each class would be a very good turn-out so i'm not sure they're needed.
Keeping it simple is the important thing.
Paul.
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RedBull
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What are the main things that could blow in wet weather (Are batteries an issue here, or not so much?) I'm only asking as, opposed to not racing at all, maybe running a cruddy old brushed motor/ESC and an old NiMH battery would be better to "ruin" than not taking part at all?
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Hugh Jengine
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Hello Paul - there are hardly any rules there - i tried to produce a consice list of suggestions that could not be misinterpreted, keeping it simple.
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Hugh Jengine
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My last post was in response to a previous comment which has now been removed.
My post has been edited by a third party, i'll not be posting again.
See you all at the track, Ryk
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